2001

The Case against
UPSTATE GAMES.

Introduction:
Online Shopping can be risky, especially if you import items. Credit Card Fraud can happen, or you may never get an order. Sometimes an order can take longer than it should to reach your house. Now, Upstate Games is an online import/video game store. I have personally never ordered from them, but I know people who have ordered from Upstate Games and received their orders months after they were charged for the item.

Imagine importing a Game Boy Advance game, getting charged for the game, and then not getting the game for months after you were charged for it! It happens to people on occasion. When it happened to a staff member at DMG Ice, he made a chronicle of his experience. However, I received an e-mail on November 27th, 2001 at 9:49am from the man who owns Upstate Games. The contents of this letter accused my staff member of slander; because he printed personal email he sent and received. Apparently, it really didn't take over 180 days for him to recieve an order he had already been charged for the first week. Now, when an order takes six to eight weeks for delivery, that's normal. But when it takes six to eight MONTHS... that's borderline fraud.

I'm not accusing Upstate Games of Fraud. I'm here to give you an insight into this company. I gathered information on it and I put together a little dossier for you, the reader, to see. If you want to order from Upstate Games, please read this page first before you put your money, and your credit card, on the line. I suppose I should show some sort of sympathy for the company as it is small and Dimitri -in the case of Game Boy Advance pre orders- promised more stock than he was able to deliver. While that sounds like lying or making a fraudulent claim, he's just a person and people can make mistakes. Even if those mistakes are inconvenient, frustrating, and repeated. So, without further ado.. enjoy some information.

Better Business Bureau Report
Current as of December 1st, 2001 (Shown in it's entirety with no cuts or edits. This is a direct Copy/Paste of the e-mailed information received.)

       Upstate Games
       PO Box 40184
       Rochester, NY 14604

Phone Number: 716-442-7223
Type of Business Code: 5626 Computers-Supls/Parts/Ser

The information in this report has either been provided by the
company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE

       The Bureau has requested basic information from this company.
       The Bureau has not received a response. The Bureau opened its
       file on December 27, 1999.

This company has an unsatisfactory business performance record
with the Bureau due to unanswered complaints.

       When evaluating complaint information, please consider the
       company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints
       filed against the company may not be as important as the type of
       complaints and how the company handled them.

       Closed Complaints
          Number of complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's BBB
       file was opened in December of 1999: 40
          Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months:
       30

       Complaints Concerned
          Sales Issues: 4
             Outcome of all complaints -
                Company made every reasonable effort to Resolve: 4

          Delivery Issues: 24
             Outcome of all complaints -
                Resolved: 4; Delayed Resolution: 1; Company made every
                reasonable effort to Resolve: 12; Company did not
       respond:
                   7

Page: 1

          Guarantee or Warranty Issues: 1
             Outcome of the complaint -
                Company made every reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

          Product Quality Issues: 2
             Outcome of all complaints -
                Company did not respond: 2

          Refund or Exchange Issues: 3
             Outcome of all complaints -
                Company made every reasonable effort to Resolve: 3

          Customer Service Issues: 3
             Outcome of all complaints -
                Company made every reasonable effort to Resolve: 2;
                Company did not respond: 1

          Credit or Billing Issues: 3
             Outcome of all complaints -
                Company made every reasonable effort to Resolve: 2;
                Company did not respond: 1

ADDITIONAL ADDRESSES

Additional addresses for this company include 36 Vick Park,
Rochester, NY 14607.

REPORT DATE: 11/30/2001

STANDARD DISCLAIMER

       As a matter of policy, the Better Business Bureau does not
       endorse any product, service, or company. BBB reports generally
       cover a three-year reporting period, and are provided solely to
       assist you in exercising your own best judgment. Information
       contained in this report is believed reliable but not guaranteed
       as to accuracy. Reports are subject to change at any time.

Page: 2

Misc Complaints on/about Upstate Games.
This section contains links current as of December 05th, 2001 with a brief description of each link. Be aware that DMG Ice does not hold any responsability for the content and language of any of these links.

1. (Detailed Page)
http://www.tellcity.net/Upstate.html

2. (Misc reviews. Some good. Some bad.)
http://www.gbaprojects.com/Import/UpstateGames.htm

3. (Unexplained reason.)
http://www.lphs.dupage.k12.il.us/stu_proj/Advapp1/baran_web/GBAreview.htm

4. (Various Links + Reviews, Negative review of Upstate Games)
http://ago_ny.tripod.com/diasflec/buy.html

5. (Detailed page)
http://www.thefuture.clara.co.uk/upstategamesorderhelldonotbuyfromthiscompanybecausetheysuck.htm

6. (Various Links + Reviews, Negative review of Upstate Games)
http://sykhronics.game-point.net/links.html

Alternative Importing Companies that I have used.
Here is a list of online stores I have imported video games and equipment from in the past and each importer has a review on it.

1. Lik Sang: Despite being based in Hong Kong, this company has always delivered properly and on time to my staff members and I. They are rather reliable and as a company, are a great friend to all up and coming GB Developers.
http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/default.php

2. Simply Games: A European import store and I haven't had any problems with them. A tad expensive because of the exchange rate though.
http://www.simplygames.com/lores.index.asp

3. National Console Support: I ordered some small items and they pretty much buried the items in packing safety material. Which, is actually a good thing, the items weren't breakable; but the packing material and the careful way the box was prepared surprised me. Also, it arrived earlier than expected. Overall, I was pleased with the order and I promptly went back and bought from NCSX again.
http://www.ncsx.com/

4. Toys N Joys: Despite the cheesy name, they have great prices, and very nice customer service. I haven't had any problems with them and they've e-mailed me when something is back-ordered. Overall, they do something that all good online stores should do and that is communicate on actions being taken. In other words, instead of saying something will ship and not shipping it, they actually ship it.
http://www.toysnjoys.com/

Conclusion
There you go. I have offered you a report on Upstate Games from the Better Business Bureau in New York, a list of links to self-contained complaints and grievances on the company, and alternatives that I have personally used. You may use this information as you wish. If you have ordered from Upstate Games in the past and not had any problems with that company, by all means, continue doing business with them. However, if you have never ordered from Upstate Games before, please consider what you have read before deciding if you want to shop with Upstate Games.

NOW GET BACK TO DMG ICE!!!

All information, links, and reports gathered, verified, and checked by Philip Wesley
This is intended only for informational purposes, and to raise customer/consumer awareness of descrepancies with Upstate Games that may lead to unpleasent experiences.